[dragonfly]

Hi there everyone,

A few friends and I are looking to put on a Musical Revue at a small venue in London, and wondered if anyone could give advice on whether we need to get performing rights or not for using musical theatre songs. It will literally be a concert style show with just us, some microphones and a pianist, so not exactly a full scale production!

I've done a couple of these shows before and have never heard anyone talk about paying for performance rights for using songs from shows - is there a rule that you can't use anything from a show that's on in the West End at the moment or is that just urban legend?

I was just wondering whether its the sort of thing that everyone does and gets away with as long as it's in a small venue and not much money is made, etc - didn't want us getting into trouble!

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[MaisieM]

Hi there everyone,

A few friends and I are looking to put on a Musical Revue at a small venue in London, and wondered if anyone could give advice on whether we need to get performing rights or not for using musical theatre songs. It will literally be a concert style show with just us, some microphones and a pianist, so not exactly a full scale production!

I've done a couple of these shows before and have never heard anyone talk about paying for performance rights for using songs from shows - is there a rule that you can't use anything from a show that's on in the West End at the moment or is that just urban legend?

I was just wondering whether its the sort of thing that everyone does and gets away with as long as it's in a small venue and not much money is made, etc - didn't want us getting into trouble!

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

As a rule you are not allowed to perform songs in the context of the original show (e.g. singing Oh What A Beautiful Morning dressed as Curly!). However, you will have to pay PR to use most songs - best to always check with the rights holders for each one and also with PRS.

[Red Momma]

When I was working on Showcases up to two years ago, the rule was that you could have a 20 minute maximum excerpt from a show without having to pay rights.
You can use songs from a show as long as your programme gives full details

eg
Luck Be a Lady

From Guys and Dolls
Based on a story and characters by Damon Runyon.
Book by Abe Burrows and Jo Swerling:
Music & Lyrics by Frank Loesser

but it is always worth running it past the PRS

[dragonfly]

When I was working on Showcases up to two years ago, the rule was that you could have a 20 minute maximum excerpt from a show without having to pay rights.
You can use songs from a show as long as your programme gives full details

eg
Luck Be a Lady

From Guys and Dolls
Based on a story and characters by Damon Runyon.
Book by Abe Burrows and Jo Swerling:
Music & Lyrics by Frank Loesser

but it is always worth running it past the PRS

Brilliant, thanks for your advice guys! We're only planning on doing a song or two from several different shows so that should be fine.

[Orchestrator]

Brilliant, thanks for your advice guys! We're only planning on doing a song or two from several different shows so that should be fine.

I'm not an expert but I think an important aspect is whether the songs are "staged" and/or if the evening as a a whole has some dramatic throughline. That takes you into the area of Grand Rights.

For example, there was a big show about 20 years ago in London (I can't remember if it was Ziegfeld or Winnie) and they wanted to use two Irving Berlin songs. The request went to Mr Berlin and he replied along the lines of "Of course you may use my songs in your show; £200 per song per performance". Nice work if you can get it, but he was completely within his, ahem, rights. I think they decided not to go down that artistic road :-)

[Red Momma]

I'm not an expert but I think an important aspect is whether the songs are "staged" and/or if the evening as a a whole has some dramatic throughline. That takes you into the area of Grand Rights.

Thanks Orchestrator.
I forgot that aspect about staging.
The numbers should not include any choreographed movement as that would amount to a staging.

So it is Ok to go on sing and leave!