[Lanark]

Having endured the awful Kismet at the ENO - and it is no good Ms Tomasi pointing to the awards they get for their opera productions since musicals are something quite different - one does wonder why it is that they had to chose yet another old Broadway show. I saw the Stoll production years ago - yes, I am very old - and it sparkled. But it was years ago and it had a cast of people who can do musicals and sets to die for, not sets that the designer should get killed for, and a cast clearly wishing it was curtain before the damned thing had risen who had left what talent they possessed, questionable in some cases, behind in the dressing room.
But to the point, looking in the window of the shop next door I saw some CDs of past productions of Kismet, went inside and ended up buying one of The Water Gypsies, which led me to wonder just what happened to Vivian Ellis. I know he is dead and his name graces one of those awards, but what has happened to the musicals he composed? If the ENO must revive something for three weeks what about The Water Gypsies, or Tough at the Top, his favourite score, or perhaps Big Ben. The books may need tweaking - they had to tweak Kismet, although it was not at all clear what Kit Hesketh Harvey actually did to improve the material. But the songs are splendid, the opportunities for the chorus, a glory of the ENO, to sing its heart out are there. There is a long list of English musical comedies and operettas which might well stand revival - both Novello and Coward spring to mind, but what about Maschwitz and Harry Parr Davies and Julian Slade - forget Salad Days, think Trelawney which shone at the Wells but flopped when transferred to the worst possible theatre, The Prince of Wales whose shallow Odeon style auditorium destroyed it.
You try and get Ellis's music and you come up against a great black hole. It must be out there somewhere, but who knows where. It would be good to hear it again. Maybe Lloyd Webber could come to his rescue if the ENO cannot.

[Tintin]

And I thought I was the only one old enough to remember the production at the Stoll. I was a schoolboy at the time and saw it over the school holidays, sitting right up at the back of the gallery. And it was bliss! I have very vivid memories of the beautiful set and costume design and the performances by Alfred Drake, Doretta Morrow and Joan Diener, and when I bought the LP, I just played it over and over again. It is still one of my favourites. And just think, they didn't have or need body mikes in those days. As with most Broadway scores, the roles should be played by actors who can sing and not opera singers.

Well, I absolutely hated the current production, apart from the brilliant performance by Michael Ball. The sets and costumes looked cheap, gaudy and amateurish. The orchestra and singing sounded harsh and metallic. The direction and choreography were very poor, and Faith Prince lacked the sexiness her part required, although, to be fair, she was stuck with a hideous wigs and costumes. I could not wait for the interval to come around and left the whole ghastly fiasco when it did. I think there shoud be an award for the worst musical of the year and this production should receive it. Not that I was all that surprised, as I thought they had made a mess of "On the Town", which I also remember very clearly in a stunning production with Elliott Gould and Don McKay, at the Prince of Wales.

I agree about Vivian Ellis. He was one of Britain's greatest show composers, but there was a revival of "Bless The Bride" some years ago at Sadlers Wells (I think) and it did not do very well critically or financially. I think it is because the "books" for most of those old musicals would seem very dated now, although the scores were really delightful. Maybe the Chichester Festival Theatre should have a go, as they have produced some excellent revivals in recent years. "The Water Gypsies" would be a good choice as it does have a very interesting story. I am glad that you mention the CD, Lanark. I really must get that one.

And how about "Free As Air", "Kings Rhapsody", "The Lisbon Story" and "The Dancing Years"? All of them have such great scores.

[Matthew Winn]

I agree about Vivian Ellis. He was one of Britain's greatest show composers, but there was a revival of "Bless The Bride" some years ago at Sadlers Wells (I think) and it did not do very well critically or financially. I think it is because the "books" for most of those old musicals would seem very dated now, although the scores were really delightful.

There was a production of Bless The Bride at The King's Head in the summer of 1999. Unfortunately I can remember neither how well it sold nor how well it was received by the critics. I do remember that I enjoyed it, while at the same time being ever so slightly disappointed by the naïvety of the show. It had a sort of gratingly unconvincing innocence about it.

[Lanark]

There was a production of Bless The Bride at The King's Head in the summer of 1999. Unfortunately I can remember neither how well it sold nor how well it was received by the critics. I do remember that I enjoyed it, while at the same time being ever so slightly disappointed by the naïvety of the show. It had a sort of gratingly unconvincing innocence about it.

[Lanark]

The book is always the thing that does not survive with musicals. Opera, heaven knows why, gets away with it. But the book of a musical can be worked on. The King's Head revival of Bless the Bride was, like everything there, simply an impression of the piece. Most Porter musicals of the thirties, for instance, would not bear revival, but his Out of This World at Chichester worked pretty well, while the Hart and Rodgers Babes in Arms at Chichester this summer was a classic example of an attempt, not altogether successful, to give a show with a feeble book a better one.
But what I am really arguing is that there ought to be room somewhere for operettas and musicals to be performed in repertory seasons. There is a Berlin theatre that does them - an English National Operatta company perhaps. Old musicals may not be commercial today in West End terms, but they might in the context of a company season - there has to be a reason for Kismet and On The Town getting staged as well as the Rodgers and Hammerstein shows the National has done as well as all the others. Obviously if you can transfer you may do very well, but transfers don't always happen and one has to assume the production is costed within the budget of the company for that season.

[Horton]

If the ENO must revive something for three weeks what about The Water Gypsies, or Tough at the Top, his favourite score, or perhaps Big Ben. The books may need tweaking - they had to tweak Kismet, although it was not at all clear what Kit Hesketh Harvey actually did to improve the material.

Actually, the production team was not allowed to "tweak" very much at all, since the original book-writer, an irrascible old Texan nearing 100, refused to permit most changes.

[Daniel]

Interesting discussion. Unfortunately old musicals & operettas are rarely performed now. One could rely on Sadlers Wells occasionally in the past but, understandably, since the renovation, they put on almost exclusively dance productions. Also, before the disgraceful withdrawal of the Doyle Carte's grant, they had just begun to widen their repetoire to include non-G & S operettas. It's very sad - there's a whole host of musicals & operettas ( White Horse Inn, New Moon, Rose Marie, Desert Song, Student Prince etc etc) which we will probably never see again and, more importantly, are lost to this and future generations. In the meantime, musicals from the latter half of the 20th century are re-cycled again & again ad nauseum.

[musicals fan]

I agree with the adverse comments on the Kismet (plus a few other ENO productions of late).

The discussion ought to look too at what ENO should be doing now that operas come with surtitles. What is the point of an English translation when a perfectly serviceable narrative is available via these surtitles? Most professionals I have heard or read seem to say that a lot is lost in translation.
I haven't seen one convincing argument for English sung opera - except where the opera was WRITTEN in English.

ENO is being subsidised for reasons of its "heritage" role and perhaps it should concentrate on English sung operettas and musicals (also American shows of classic status), including "forgotten" names such as Edward German, Vivian Ellis and possibly even Ivor Novello, and at the very least should perform one Gilbert and Sullivan production per year. If G&S isn't part of the
UK's "heritage" then I don't know what is. They might even contemplate putting some on in "concert" form - it works pretty well and keeps the costs down.

I saw an interesting Countess Maritza at Sadler's Wells a few years back which was in the repertoire of the Hungarian equivalent of ENO who kept it alive precisely because it was part of that country's heritage.

ENO is now in pretty poor shape and needs some basic re-thinking to compete with other forms of entertainment available now.

[Lanark]

Interesting discussion. Unfortunately old musicals & operettas are rarely performed now. One could rely on Sadlers Wells occasionally in the past but, understandably, since the renovation, they put on almost exclusively dance productions. Also, before the disgraceful withdrawal of the Doyle Carte's grant, they had just begun to widen their repetoire to include non-G & S operettas. It's very sad - there's a whole host of musicals & operettas ( White Horse Inn, New Moon, Rose Marie, Desert Song, Student Prince etc etc) which we will probably never see again and, more importantly, are lost to this and future generations. In the meantime, musicals from the latter half of the 20th century are re-cycled again & again ad nauseum.

I see someone applauding the idea that 42nd Street might be revived. You are right - it is the same old stuff that gets done and the shows of the prewar years get lost and no matter how dated they may be that doesn't stop people pretending - I use it is the sense of claiming - that the films of Astaire and Rogers are still classy entertainment. They are. You just need decent performers and there are plenty around - as well as directors who understand the material.

[mjr]

I do agree Lanark, opera comanies should stick to what they do best, well almost all of the time lol, and that is producing opera