I went to the ALW party in Hyde Park and had a wonderful time. The thread on this evening ended up focussing to a large degree on one singer. I am not musically knowledgable, but know what I like when I hear it. As a middle aged, not particularly musical person who loves ALW's musicals I took the opportunity, went along and adored the whole evening.

For me Rhydian was one of the stand out performances but it seems that to say this is like a red rag to a bull for some established members of the site. I honestly don't get it? From their body language, he seemed to have the respect of the conductor and other artists. He is a nice young man, well educated musically, he has a lovely voice (I listened again last night on Radio 2).

....so please, no sarcasm because I am honestly asking the question seriously, I can't believe it is because he entered a talent show as so did Lee Mead - why is it apparently considered 'poor judgement' to like Rhydian, or have I totally got hold of the wrong end of the stick?

Well there is no doubt he is talented but this is not enough. As Simon Cowell would say you need the "likeability factor" which he is sadly lacking. Lee Mead is "likeable" Rhydian isn't. In fact there is something quite scary about him - can't put my finger on it. He's like these people you see on Channel 4 documetaries who belong to these wierd religious cults in America! So no I don't predict a great career. Something should have "happened" for him by now and it hasn't. There was talk of him doing Phantom wasn't there and that hasn't happened. Perhaps being "quite scary" would be ideal for this part!!??

There are two types of fans. There are normal fans, who like someone's work and that's as far as it goes. And there are crazy fans, who take it as a personal affront if anyone disagrees with their assessment of that person, who cannot tolerate any dissenting opinion, who build up elaborate fantasies to justify their preference, who think their favourite is capable of every role ever created, and who launch campaigns of aggression against anyone who has the temerity to think less of the person in question than they do.

Rhydian Roberts has more than his fair share of the second type of fan.

It's as if their entire self-image is based on him. It's not enough for them to like him; they need everyone else to agree in order to validate their opinion. If someone doesn't agree they're accused of "jealousy" or "ignorance". (The "jealousy" argument is pretty much the hallmark of the delusional fan on this forum.)

As far as this forum in particular is concerned, we're suspicious of Rhydian's fans because of the way the lunatic fringe of fandom behaved back at the start of this year. They organised a flood of postings in which half a dozen or so people pretended to be many more posters and tried to bully everyone else into submission, all in the hope that if they made Rhydian look popular enough word would get back to Andrew Lloyd Webber who would then give him a lead role. They did their level best to upset as many people as possible. This is a discussion forum, but they weren't here to discuss anything. They were here to cause trouble.

So to answer your question, it's not poor judgment to like Rhydian Roberts. It is, however, poor judgment to think that he's so wonderful that he can transcend his lack of theatre experience and be able to handle a lead role in a musical, and it is poor judgment to think that anyone who doesn't like him is jealous or ignorant. If his fans want to discuss him I'm sure nobody would have any problem, but experience suggests that there's not much chance of that happening.

Wicked Grin - First, thanks for answering and I'm glad agreed that he is talented because from the Hyde Park thread I had wondered if that was in question.

The likeability factor? Of course that is personal taste always and noone is universally liked. The world would be a boring place if there was no difference in who and what we all like. Yes his looks are unusual, but he has a beautiful smile. He has done some performances 'in character' which may be misinterpreted as him being strange, though among a theatre loving group that should be easily distinguishable. He has been recording an album - out next month - which will I suppose be a test of his likeability? I had a bit of a dig using Google and any people who have actually met him say how really nice he is - his teachers, fellow contestants who lived with him, Andrew Johnson, Simon Cowell - so is the question mark on likeability just a looks thing?

I thought Lee Mead likeable too and enjoyed his performances. He is well suited to the handsome hero roles and I like his voice.

Matthew,

I can well see that the multiple identity thing is likely to have raised ill feeling and wariness, though I would not tarnish the artist for the behaviour of a small handful of fanatics. Problems are probably largely due to the anonymity and ease of misuse of the internet - often ill mannered if You Tube is an example. Thanks anyway for explaining the 'atmosphere' which was puzzling. Rereading the thread with your information made more sense as the negativity was marked. I did notice though that those who were bluntly critical were often critical of more than one artist.

The inexperienced artist - isn't that exactly what ALW has been doing or have all his show winners been experienced. I did not watch so don't know their backgrounds. Lee Mead is certainly a find. As an ALW fan, I am personally very happy to wait for his casting choices and will be open to enjoy whoever he decides. He is the one with the original vision after all.

Thanks again to both of you -

I do not like him at all, he thinks hes all that because of his voice....there are much better singers!!!! Plus just his whole look is silly!!

Strong opinion

I think Rhydian is a fantastic peformer. His voice is outstanding. Yes there are better singers than him but that could be said about anyone.

I quite liked him on x facor but found him very uncomfortable to watch at the ALW birthday and he didnt sound as good as the others doing phantom songs, the difference sounded even more stark on the radio.

I have to agree with you. I found him refreshing on the X-Factor as he was bringing something different to the competition, BUT, I didn't like his interpretation of the song at the ALW birthday and he was horrible to watch. I thought I might think differently just 'hearing' him on the radio - but unfortunately it left me just wishing that they had let Ramin Karimloo sing it instead.

Interestingly the other performance I found distinctly 'forgettable' was Jonathan Ansell (ex G4) and I wonder whether it shows that, whilst good singers, they are not at this time capable enough to pull off musical theatre performances.

Just my opinion

I am told that at 25, a singer’s voice is not fully mature. Someone with good technical knowledge of music could probably point out faults and be correct – the good singers do seem to continue having lessons even when they are established.

However, performance is about how the listener feels too, which is individual and of course influenced by personal taste as we see from the diverse opinions here. I could tell the current Phantom is very good but did not make me want to hear more of him specifically. Although I adore Michael Crawford singing Music Of The Night, I felt that Rhydian's voice and power on the deeper notes added something special that I had not heard before.

Perhaps he has chosen to play to his greatest strength and that is why his ambition is to be a recording artist. Hence his album may still appeal to some who did not like his MOTN performance. It did occur to me that the opera stage and close up TV require different styles of presentation so whether his performance worked may have in part depended on whether you watched him directly or the screens

Of course, I expect different people to have different favourite versions and it seems that in Rhydian’s case, as the expression goes, one man’s milk is another man’s poison. He is on my radar now, so I will definitely continue to watch with interest.

So forgettable I actually did forget he was there! Only remembered when I heard him on the radio.

I think it does show that there's a world of difference between being an excellent singer and being someone who really wows an audience with a stage performance - with the emotion they bring to it, and the performance they give. It is a bit unfair to compare singers with no MT experience to those who are working professionally in it.

It's not just Rhydian and Jonathan Ansell who suffered from this - Joss Stone was also heavily criticised for her performance, and I believe there were a few comments about Jodie, Jessie et al. too. Whereas I don't recall hearing any complaints at all about John Barrowman - and surely not everyone there was a huge fan of his?

I agree, it's an apples and oranges comparison in a way.

The problem for any singer handling crossover material is to make the song work in spite of their vocal training. Classical singers tend to sledgehammer MT songs with technique, where an actor's touch is needed. The best MT singers are really good actors who are capable of telling stories through song, in ways that illuminate the words. I'd rather hear a great actor with a so-so voice than a great singer with so-so (or no or over-) acting.

Rhydian's acting is so over-the-top on "Music of the Night" that it makes me want to turn away, it's just painful.

And I don't mean the kind of beautiful, cathartic pain that Steve Balsamo invokes with "Gethsemane". I thought all of the experienced MT performers that night were good to brilliant. Well, maybe not Idina.

It is true that you accept a brilliant actor with less good vocals because of their acting ability which they transfer to the song. John Barrowman to me is an excellent actor and entertainer. I enjoyed his performances and feel sure I would love him in a musical. However, when I have listened to his album his voice does not have the special something that makes me enjoy HIS voice particularly. Rhydian's voice has that for me. I am fine with the exaggarated way Rhydian presents some of his performances but it is obvious not everyone is and that is fair enough. I have since looked at a number of other performances where he just being himself, like the You Tubes from a performance in Bolton. You see a very different person. I wonder, could this performance have been choreographed for him?

JB is one of those performers who does not come across well in studio albums. None of them have the energy and passion he can bring to live performance. He doesn't do much on the pop numbers either, even though he has a "pretty" voice. For me, it sounds like he just doesn't connect with the material, whereas he does do that on MT numbers, some songs more than others.

I really hoped this thread would be ignored so that it could disappear quickly, hence not wanting to bump it. Matthew Winn had it right to start with when he talked about the lunatic fringe and those who are so personally offended that anyone might not share their devotion that they have to infiltrate wherever they can to spread the word. It is almost as if Rhydian has become some sort of awful cult/quasi religion where the devotees/disciples have to go and be evangelical on his behalf. And it is just dreadful! And for all that this thread was started as purporting to be "reasonable", it is still coming from that same unhealthy place. But this is a forum for all things about theatre and Rhydian is NOT a theatre performer! He is really irrelevant here! And the thread was started by Apricot, not because of relevance or through the remotest genuine interest in the theatre (or understanding), but just because she couldn't stand that he wasn't being appropriately "appreciated" here. And it was a means to an end to get him talked about again and to surreptitiously try to present all the reasons why everyone else should really think he is as wonderful as she thinks he is.



But the issue in respect of musical theatre voices not translating so well for recording purposes is actually an interesting one. It would be well included as a thread on it's own account rather than encouraging the very specific Rhydian connection.

Rhydian = the UK's answer to Clay Aiken.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

Arrgh, it makes less sense than ever now...

Not dissimilar in many ways! It will be interesting if the denouement turns out to be the same as well!

Annasette, you have made several assumptions about me that are incorrect. For example, I was most recently at the theatre on Wednesday evening. However, I respect the fact that you, along with several people who have posted on this thread do not share my opinion. In fact, it would be contrary not to welcome your post bearing in mind the title of the thread.

[quote name='Annasette' date='Oct 17 2008, 08:06 PM' post='50928']
I really hoped this thread would be ignored so that it could disappear quickly, hence not wanting to bump it.

Hello, Annasette, you sound really like a dictator. It make me feel that the forum is your little cosy nest, not a public chat room. What a shame!

Anyway, Rhydian may be not your choosing taste, but there are hell of a lot people like me who are enjoying his performance, and would like to see him working in the MT in the future. There are rooms for everyone, I'm afraid.

I haven't made a wrong assumption in that your presence here and your starting this thread, was solely about your interest in, and wanting to promote, Rhydian. Go back and read your own posts. You have made an effort to try to disguise it, but it is still glaring. You have tried to go about it in a nicer and more intelligent way that the Renaissance person is capable of, as similarly only here to defend poor Rhydian from the temerity of anyone who doesn't share the devotion, but it is the same thing. And I am just very uncomfortable with that whole scenario.

You, and anyone else, are perfectly welcome to like whoever you want to like. It is just that devotional need to spread the word and get all defensive that isn't appropriate. And I am sure there must be specific forums where he can do no wrong and where to extol his virtues in every respect is the order of the day. But they won't be theatre-centric. And appearing in a concert at the BBC's behest doesn't make him anything to do with the theatre. Maybe he will be at some point in the future. Who knows? But he is not yet. And as Matthew Winn explained, there is very good reason for wariness now in respect of anything to do with him and I am concerned that this has effectively invited it back.

My actual interest was piqued by the range and strength of feelings I had seen expressed but I doubt there is anything I could say that would change your incorrect assumptions and have no wish to provoke an argument. How about we agree to differ and focus on the debate about different types of singing and acting background as it relates to performance in musical theatre. Start a thread and I will happily contribute without any mention of the R word.

Annesette

Well done Congratualtions...

You have just managed to close a thread which no one wanted on here.....God forbid the R name is ever mentioned again.

I actually feel the need to defend Apricot here. When it was the ALW concert thread that was getting hijacked by endless arguments about Rhydian (that were getting rather nasty) I was in complete agreement that it was inappropriate, and I'm glad that thread has opened back up to a more general (and better-humoured) discussion. But several people in that thread commented that the place to discuss Rhydian as a performer was in the performer's section of the forum, where anyone who wasn't interested in the subject could avoid it. So I don't think it is fair to then criticise Apricot for doing exactly as several other forum regulars recommended.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to see a discussion of Rhydian - and this one hasn't even focused exclusively on him - then you don't have to click on the thread.

As a theatre performer who has performed onstage with Rhydian in several musicals, I'd like to make the point that he is very much a theatre performer and far more able than many males i trained with. Going on the X-factor doesn't make you any less of a theatre performer, it just pigeon holes you in the eyes of some.

Having said that, RAT invasion is somewhat frustrating at times.

So glad my last post motivated someone into posting!!!!
Sorry Guys and Girls.

I am Rhydian supporter, but could see no point in having a thread for the Guy if no one was allowed to say anything positive! defeats the object !!!!!!
I'm not a member of the Rat pack or any bible bashing community, I just adore his voice.
His Album is due for release next month, and I am counting down the days. err thats 35 days to wait.


LOL I'll be afraid to come back and read future comments.

Thank you Kathryn2, your words are much appreciated.

Oh, really? in what musicals? Do you think he could play the roles in Sweeney Todd or Les Miserables? I'd love to hear him singing 'Bring Him Home'. Colm Wilkinson did it brilliantly!

I see there is a Rhydian and Idina Menzel duet on his debut album ..............What If. Should be wonderful and their vocals should compliment each other so well.

I have just listened to a couple of snippets from the new album and I have to say he sings 'The Impossible Dream' very well. He may not be everyone's cup of tea but give the guy a break, he does have a fantastic voice and I think most performers would rather have a really successful recording career than a couple of runs in a West End show.

P.S. He gets nothing but stick on this board but how many people have heard of Colm Wilkinson who has a great voice I admit. I also love Michael McCarthy but how many people do you think have actually heard of him outside the world of the West End theatre. You can hardly say that about Rydian now can you. He does not even need a surname!! I would think he is very happy where he is right now and I hope his new album is a great success. And no I am not one of his crazy fans, never seen him live or written to him. I just appreciate his voice and it is nice to know that there are lots of other folk out there who also love 'good' music and I know everyone has a different opinion on what good music is.....

Chrissie I think your comments just emphasise the huge difference we have been discussing in this thread, between musical theatre performers and singers/recording artists.

At the end of the day it is a mark of a musical theatre performer's success that they can release an album in their own name, but not many actually give up working on the stage. It is actually performing onstage in a musical that is their first love, despite any success they have as a recording artist, or if they become a 'celebrity'.

I'm not trying to criticise Rhydian when I say that being a 'celebrity' or a 'household name' doesn't actually require a lot of talent, just a lot of exposure to the public. The nature of their work, and the limits of theatre audiences, means that many hugely talented and successful musical theatre performers will never become celebrities. There are only really a few who have made the celebrity cross-over from MT - Michael Ball, Sarah Brightman, Elaine Paige, John Barrowman (and he's better-known for being in Dr Who than for his stage work among the general public).

I'm sure that Rhydian's album will be a big succes, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to have a big MT career. He might, if he really does want to pursue it over recording - but I assume that you're right and he'd rather have a recording career. There's nothing wrong with that. However, it does mean that a theatre forum isn't the place to find huge numbers of his most ardent fans, and it is hardly surprising that lots of people on here don't like him that much.

I am trying to remember where I first heard of the lovely Michael Ball. I am sure he had a lot of TV and radio exposure due to ALW releasing Michael's version of Love Changes Everything from Aspects of Love prior to the show opening. I think that many musical theatre stars who have become household names may have had similar introductions to the general public. It does not make them the best, perhaps just the luckiest.

Talking of Michael Ball, I remember on here a few years ago, he used to get so much abuse that his name was eventually banned and yes, he is one of the few people who started in theatre and became a household name. It was all very similar to now, MB fans would come on and defend him and all the Whatsonstage regulars who thought he was not a 'real' theatre artist because he was so successful and recorded numerous albums, did sell out tours and even had a couple of TV series, used to write the most abusive messages, about him, his fans, his fan club. And yes I agree Kathryn 2 that there is a huge difference between celebrity 'singers' and what would you say, the genine article. But I would have to say that I think Rhydian falls into the second catagory, he has such a rich baritone voice, which would totally suit musical theatre and if his celebrity helps bring that genre of music to the masses, then for me it is good.

He was terrible in the X Factor

I think Michael came to public notice when he sang "Love Changes Everything" on the Wogan show one night.
Apparently the proverbial BBC switchboard was jammed.
Even made this old heart flip, especially at the key change!!!

Future articles from Chrissie will cover topics such as Germany's victory in The Great War, how the Soviet Union beat the United States in the race to put a man on the Moon, and why the modern banking system brings stability and security to the world's economies.

(That's a heavily revised version of history you have there. Perhaps you've forgotten how the fans started dozens of threads at the same time and did their best to bump them so they would dominate the front page of the forum. Perhaps you've forgotten how the fans refused to tolerate any negative opinions about Michael Ball. And perhaps you've forgotten how the fans screamed about prejudice when they were prevented for voting multiple times in a people's choice award because they resented having to follow the same rules as everyone else.)

So the 'over enthusiasm' of a set of fans (fanatics?) causing offence is not a new phenomenon that has beset this site and one artist that prompted it is now well loved and respected. I would never have guessed that from current posts. I do remember that there was a lot of publicity about Michael's beautiful voice being 'untrained' so maybe the fact that Rhydian has spent years in voice training as a young operatic baritone, could make him a more plausible match for musical theatre.

Love your irony Mathew but who can say who actually posted what. Yes there were thousands of posts as I remember but who knows who actually posted them. My main gripe was the fact that the moderators on this board let the most abusive remarks stay and did nothing to delete them and in fact, there would not have been any problem, as there have been none on Dress Circle, if you had proper registration on here.

[quote name='Chrissie' date='Oct 26 2008, 10:48 AM' post='51599']
Love your irony Mathew but who can say who actually posted what. Yes there were thousands of posts as I remember but who knows who actually posted them. My main gripe was the fact that the moderators on this board let the most abusive remarks stay and did nothing to delete them and in fact, there would not have been any problem, as there have been none on Dress Circle, if you had proper registration on here.
[/quote


P.S. Just re read your post Mathew, regarding the People's Awared, wasn't it the other way around? As I remember it the 'Queen' fans were multiple voting and someone suggested on MBFC that they do the same.

The so-called modern banking system may as well sustain the capitalist economy. It certainly helped to make a selected few became super rich, (hehe, how about the inside&insight dealings ) leaving the rest of us in a hugh muddle. And as always, the middles class will be worse-off: hardly getting any helps from the states, no to mention the forever rising costs! Oh, sorry, it is a wrong thread to keep on about this.

Back to Rhydian, he has brought joys to many people through his singing. However, in order to obtain respects from the regular theatre-goers, he has to show the ability and merit by acting in the MT. Let's hope there is a chance in the near future.

renaissance wrote

That is entirely fair, but not yet commanding respect is different to actual disrespect. The former would have attracted little comment, the latter led to this thread. I know the thread is not wanted by some and is viewed with suspician by others, but hopefully it has also brought open and fair discussion and that was not typically happening before. I would like to hope its existence will make the fanatical behaviour which aparently upset members in the past history, at least as far as Rhydian is concerned.

By the way, renaissance, the banking system is probably universally relevant so feel free after all Rhydian has just filmed his video in Iceland

Sorry about the blank posting (above) - don't know how I managed that. I was going to say that Michael Ball had the michael taken out of him unmercifully on the earlier Dress Circle board. He was ragged to hell and back about his perceived/supposed/alleged sexuality, his voice, and his crazy fans, and his cheesiness. And, if I remember rightly, Dress Circle did very little to moderate anything back then.

Wow - intesting how dropping a name in a post can spark off a whole other discussion. And I only put it in because I was trying to think of 'household names', which to me means someone who my mum knows of!

I wan't around in the Ball-bashing days, so didn't know about the history. I'd've thought that his MT credentials were impeccable - the original Marius in Les Mis, after all.

I guess it just goes to show that people love having a target to shoot at - and the bigger, the better!

JR1, (is it Jinty?), I know it was a few years ago now and the old memory does fade a bit, but I remember Tanya at Dress Circle deleting pretty quickly anything that was inappropriate. Whereas good old Whatsonstage just let the stuff run and run. Ir I remember correctly it all started when he did 'The Donmar' one man show. I really think the 'theatre people' (for want of more suitable description) thought he had turned into a 'pop' singer and not a West End performer. Just shows how wrong they were!
I know this topic is supposed to be about Rhydian but I think there is also a prejudice against him for similar reasons but time will tell whether he will be able to act as well as he can sing.

Gosh, it started long before "Alone Together" at the Donmar, both WOS and DC posters pulled him to pieces ages before. Jinty? Who's asking?

Never thought of them two would do a duet. That should be very interesting.

He said on BBC Radio Wales around 3pm today that he approached her at Hyde Park to say he would like to duet with her and she agreed. The track was played and their voices matched beautifully. They also played Impossible Dream and Not A Dry Eye In the House

Have just heard the Rhydian and Idina duet and it is sensational - there are already calls for it to be released as a single.