No!! It is not April 1st!!!
The Royal Albert Hall have been informed by Health & Safety to reduce the noise levels from orchestras as it might impair the musicians' hearing.
Having spent more than 50 years in theatre, I have yet to meet a deaf musician.
So bang goes The 1812 Overture?! (Excuse the pun!)
How impertinent, ignorant and a disgrace can a government department be?
My advice? Ignore the idiots.

Cheers
Richard

Do you have a link for this news item, Richard?

The issue of noise levels at work has been on the agenda for quite some time and the managements of symphony orchestras, opera companies etc have been in discussions with employees and health experts to produce improvements to working conditions and reduce risk to the performers' hearing. There are musicians with various degrees of deafness from "standard" reduced frequency response due to old age, through significant impairment due to prolonged exposure to excessive sound levels, to those with no hearing in one or both ears due to circumstances entirely unrelated to music; needless to say, in view of the risk of naff jokes and, more seriously, loss of employment, most affected musicians don't talk about their deafness to all and sundry. Whilst some of the results of legitimate and appropriate concern for the health of performers may not be entirely satisfactory to all I would consider it callous to write that concern off as idiotic.

well said orchestrator. Richard while i understand your disgust of this news, "health and safety" is a phrase often thrown around and gets blamed for a lot. I think we need to look at the actual facts. How did you find out about this and who has said what? Is this the HSE or an internal department?

Sorry but I repeat, totally idiotic.

Link? http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Health/Th...BHall%2BHearing

Cheers

Thanks for the link, Richard. Sky isn't top of my list for truthful reporting and the article, while strong on "wit", is hardly overloaded with quotes from relevant parties.

Can you respond to the points I made in my earlier post, Richard?

Here are some links:

AAMHL
Finnish study
You And Yours

Googling +musicians +hearing +damage produces over 100 000 hits.

Having read the linked articles do you have any sympathy for deaf musicians or do you still consider them to be idiotic malingerers?

Yet the "elf n' safety" fascists have still not got around to dealing with noisy pop music in shops, bars and restaurants, let alone discos, which are well-known to be the cause of early deafness in young people. Perhaps they are prejudiced in their choice of music.

Fortunately I never need to go into shops where the canned muzak is as loud as the 1812 Overture but if such shops exist then I would imagine that the health issues for the shopworkers are being considered by the relevant bodies. Discos and bars are, indeed, sometimes horrendously noisy and will be subject to the same laws regarding noise at work as anywhere else. In general it seems right to focus on the H & E situation for the employees rather than the public in this area as the employees are exposed to the noise for 30 hours a week year in, year out as opposed to the occasional night out.

What is fascist about the HSE?

Bloody health and safety, always fussing over nothing. Dying at work at the age of thirty five was good enough for people in the nineteenth century, it should be good enough for us.

Last year I was visiting a friend in Germany. There was a touring circus in town, who were apparently amazing - but they're not allowed to perform their show in the UK because of Health and Safety - EU regulations! EU Regulations that allow performances throughout Europe. Just not here.

And your point? The Daily Mail whinges about the UK being the only EU member to follow the rules and then complains about ill-treated donkeys in Spain. As for circuses - I hate them!

Can you give us a name for the banned circus, Belle? Do they perform in the Republic of Ireland?

OOps!! I never suggested for one minute that deaf musicians are idiotic malingerers.
Health & Safety: definitely idiotic.
This latest absurd 'nanny state' directive is one of umpteen that continue to show the government as being unfit to carry on whilst making all our lives in the UK a misery.
I suspect that the whole H&S ethos is there only for financial reasons ie: prevention of being sued!!
I dread to think how much all this is costing you and I in taxes.

<cough> ... costing you and ME in taxes. Obviously insufficient taxes were spent on your education, Richard. Have you bothered to read anything serious about the risks to hearing posed by playing in a modern symphony orchestra? This problem is definitely not one that's been invented by the EU or the HSE. And even if your suspicion is correct (prevention of being sued) would you rather they did nothing and were sued up the wazoo? Because it would end up in us indirectly paying the legal costs and settlements.

If as you say 'risks to hearing posed by playing in a modern symphony orchestra' actually exist, then I assume musicians are well aware. It is their choice to continue playing and should remain so.
Slowly but surely there is government intervention into all aspects of our lives, the UK - a democracy? No Longer.
God help us.

God help you for your lack of empathy, Richard.

I am the first to speak against increasing totalitarianism (eg ID Cards, NIR, 42-Day Detention) and I consider our present government to be misguided and hopeless but in this particular instance you are making an ass of yourself. Would you have voted against the Factory Acts? Is Lord Shaftesbury one of your personal monsters? After all, the children chose to work in the factories.

And why the hell don't you read the articles I've linked to? Then you would know that the risks to hearing are real.

No point in replying to that!
Simply ludicrous as indeed is H&S

Dear Lord, it's like listening to my dad chunter on...

Or mine!

I couldn't agree more. Absolutely ludicrous. The very thought, I mean just who do they think they are to come along and try to prevent serious or even fatal injuries in the workplace. After all what's wrong with being deaf or dead for that matter? Sorry, but you do sound more like my Granddad! Who strangely, was blind in one eye and almost entirely deaf from work related injuries.

One last point: Not one penny of taxes was spent on my education.
No doubt a snide comment will follow.
With the 'Nanny State' interferring in everything we do, it would seem that the dreaded New World Order might come sooner than predicted.

QED

There is a serious issue to be addressed here (amongst all the sniping) and many orchestras in this country are now taking remedial measures such as perspex baffles etc. Clearly the usual PPE such as ear defenders etc are useless in a work situation which relies on being able to accurately hear your colleagues musical lines in order to produce a cohesive sound. Nor is playing more quietly a realistic option since the works rely on the levels envisioned by the composer in order to make their effect. it is worth noting that orchestral sound in the last 100 years has become progressively louder but the potential problem must always have been there.
On a side issue I'm rather surprised that the Albert Hall is having problems in this respect since it has a large heavily raked/tiered performance space and acres of empty air above the musicians. Short of playing in the open air it is hard to imagine a venue less likely to be prone to excessive noise level issues.

Sebastian

Is anyone in the Health and Safety world considering applying their methodology and standards to pop groups and concerts?
I would guess that the noise levels are considerably higher than at classical concerts.

I should imagine that low volume pop concerts would be a very useful way of killing off pop music altogether. One can hope anyway.

I don't know for sure but I think sound levels on stage in pop and rock concerts may sometimes be significantly quieter than in the audience. Also, due to the nature of the music it is possible for the performers to use in-ear monitoring that blocks out much of the amplified sound. [Custom-made in-ear sound-limiters are to be found in West End pits where sound levels have caused problems nowadays.] The number of middle-aged rock stars with impaired hearing is significant.

I quite agree with your last point, musicals fan - the interesting thing is how the volume of classical concerts and, indeed, musical theatre has crept up to match the expectations of audiences reared on pap, I mean pop.

That may apply to a few of the less artistically credible conductors but the main reason that orchestral sound has become louder is that instruments are much better made and more efficient now than they were 100 years ago. Also new concert halls have progressively better acoustics.
And you are quite right about the sound on a pop/rock stage as opposed to that on a classical music platform. Apart from the drum kit none of the instruments involved in a standard rock combo produce much acoustic sound. They only become loud when chanelled through a massive sound system. (obviously some bands have brass sections but nothing compared to a Wagner or Schostakovich brass line up). Ecessive sound onstage used to be down to overloud monitors allied to increasingly deaf rockers adding up to a vicious circle of ever louder sound onstage. I have been at some gigs where you could have happily switched off the FOH pa and not noticed any appreciable loss in volume in the hall! However with the advent of in-ear monitoring this problem will gradually disappear (and the life of monitor engineers will become sweetness and light!)
Unpleasant sound in the body of the hall is usually down to bad mixing not just sheer level.

Sebastian

I'm actually trying to find enough about this subject, noise at events, PPE etc to write a brief article about it, hence the googling discovery. It would be much more interesting if someone could write it from the inside so to speak. please contact me through http://www.sheqjobs.com



thanks

Dom

sheqjobs