11 replies to this topic

[richard]

I see that Siegfried on BBC 4 tonight has been relegated to the ultimate 'graveyard slot': 9.30 p.m. - 2.00 a.m.
Interesting to know the reasoning behind this.  Is it because the first two relays (understandably) failed to attract the ratings, or at least sustained ratings to the end.  Not surprising if so, as the production was appalling.
Or are the BBC suits thinking people will record it anyway?  Not so easy when it's on digital, as the set must be one tuned to the programme being recorded and what family wants Siegfried in the background till 2 a.m.?  Or can one record digitally with picture alone on?  Have never worked this out!
Or is it because John Tomlinson is singing Wotan/Wanderer, not Terfel?
As Private Eye would say, I think we should be told.

[richard]

Another look at Radio Times reveals that the 'graveyard' Siegfried is in fact on BBC 2, so the points about digital recording don't apply.
Another look at part of Act One of Siegfried, for all is too much, reveals how truly appalling the production was.  They were all dreadful, but somehow the Siegfried was in a special category of awfulness.  When can we expect an intellectually coherent Ring in London - there hasn't been one since the first Gotz Friedrich version, some thirty years ago.

[curzon]

Another look at Radio Times reveals that the 'graveyard' Siegfried is in fact on BBC 2, so the points about digital recording don't apply.
Another look at part of Act One of Siegfried, for all is too much, reveals how truly appalling the production was.  They were all dreadful, but somehow the Siegfried was in a special category of awfulness.  When can we expect an intellectually coherent Ring in London - there hasn't been one since the first Gotz Friedrich version, some thirty years ago.

I think the mistake that most directors make with the Ring is that become bogged down in details or references and fail to remember that is actually quite a good story and clarity of telling is the best way forward. but most directors these days constantly reveal that what is at the heart of their productions is a fundamental mistrust of the work they are interpreting.
I've never seen a fully satisfactory Ring. All the ones in London recently range from annoying and cluttered (ROH/Warner) through grey and dull (Friedrich no2 at ROH) to utterly ghastly (Lloyd at ENO and Jones at ROH). The best ones I have seen have been at Bayreuth in either Chereau or Kupfer's tellings. But even those had faults. At the other end of the spectrum is the equally awful "preserved in aspic" Met production or the ludicrous "anything you can do I can do slower" meaningless gestures of Robert Wilson. I had great hopes for Peter Hall's one with Solti but he got bogged down in casting problems and Bayreuth politics. I actually can't think of a director alive today who I would think could produce a fully satisfactory production. Anyone have any suggestions. Maybe Nick Hytner?

Sebastian

[richard]

Let's start a society demanding a coherent Ring!  Co.ring.com.
Actually for clarity and not set in aspic the Solti/Hans Hotter Ring of the mid 60s at Covent Garden was a very good introduction.  The answer might be, as then, to have an experienced Wotan on board as producer/adviser, say a Donald McIntyre or John Tomlinson.  They after all see more of the work than most other characters.  The key thing is to avoid like the plague some trendy 'director', who is more concerned with his own ego.   And the designer needs to be sensible too.  John Gunther springs to mind - a wonderful sense of detail AND sweep.  Then get Barenboim or Thielemann to conduct it and Covent Garden would have a Ring the world would beat a path to witness.
Rings sell out not because they are necessarily good, but because one has to take the opportunity to see the work when one can, especially if one has never seen it before.  I saw my first Ring at Bayreuth in the 60s, closely followed by the Solti one, but I would have gone to any avaialble at that time.  Current directors shouldn't interpret audience attendance as a sign of approval.

[curzon]

Let's start a society demanding a coherent Ring!  Co.ring.com.
Actually for clarity and not set in aspic the Solti/Hans Hotter Ring of the mid 60s at Covent Garden was a very good introduction.  The answer might be, as then, to have an experienced Wotan on board as producer/adviser, say a Donald McIntyre or John Tomlinson.  They after all see more of the work than most other characters.  The key thing is to avoid like the plague some trendy 'director', who is more concerned with his own ego.   And the designer needs to be sensible too.  John Gunther springs to mind - a wonderful sense of detail AND sweep.  Then get Barenboim or Thielemann to conduct it and Covent Garden would have a Ring the world would beat a path to witness.
Rings sell out not because they are necessarily good, but because one has to take the opportunity to see the work when one can, especially if one has never seen it before.  I saw my first Ring at Bayreuth in the 60s, closely followed by the Solti one, but I would have gone to any available at that time.  Current directors shouldn't interpret audience attendance as a sign of approval.

Unfortunately the Solti/Hotter one was well before my time. At least for Wagner viewing(!!) My first full Ring was the Cheareau on TV and then the rather dull WNO one. (Also very mixed singing-wise).
Wagner in general seems to bring out the absolute worst in so many directors. Witness several ghastly Parsifals recently including one at the ROH where the grail appeared to be a small turd... Pity poor Tom Hampson having to address this object in his two big scenes!
By and large the recent ROH ring was worth hearing at least. I like the way Pappano is shaping up as a Wagner conductor and Terfel and many of the rest of the cast sang superbly. Unfortunately on the nights I attended both John Treleavan and Lisa Gasteen were distinctly uneven. Gasteen's top c at the end of Siegfried was a painful shriek abruptly cut short. am I alone in thinking that a secure top c is non negotiable when singing Brunnhilde?
I suppose, in the final analysis, the Ring is just too huge in scope to ever get a totally satisfactory performance.

Sebastian

[Reich]

I've booked to see the ROH one for the music. I hate Keith Warner as a director and I'm now not really looking fwd to it as I feel his concepts will distract away from the excellent score, singers and band. Perhpas I should have gone for a restricted view and saved some money  

Sebastian, you have got me thinking about who I would like to direct a Ring ...  Did anyone see the Scottish Opera one? Tim Albery ???

[curzon]

I've booked to see the ROH one for the music. I hate Keith Warner as a director and I'm now not really looking fwd to it as I feel his concepts will distract away from the excellent score, singers and band. Perhpas I should have gone for a restricted view and saved some money  

Sebastian, you have got me thinking about who I would like to direct a Ring ...  Did anyone see the Scottish Opera one? Tim Albery ???

No I didn't. But I have never been very fond of Albery as a director to be honest. I thought both his Budd and Grimes vastly overpraised and as for ON Trojans...
I still think Peter Hall in the right environment would have produced a great Ring but it's probably too late now. It's such a hugely complex work but if you look at the story and LISTEN TO THE MUSIC Wagner tells you everything you need to know.

Sebastian

[richard]

No I didn't. But I have never been very fond of Albery as a director to be honest. I thought both his Budd and Grimes vastly overpraised and as for ON Trojans...
I still think Peter Hall in the right environment would have produced a great Ring but it's probably too late now. It's such a hugely complex work but if you look at the story and LISTEN TO THE MUSIC Wagner tells you everything you need to know.

Sebastian

Quite agree about the Grimes and the Billy Budd - what was all the fuss about?  But for sheer unbelievable over-ratedness - including an Olivier - the ENO Jenufa takes some beating.

As for the Ring - keep it simple, I'm sure is the watchword.  It's all there in the music.  I saw the first ten minutes of the Spitfire wreck Siegfried on BBC2 just for a good laugh.  If someone had done a spoof of a trendy modern Wagner production, it could not have beaten this pretentious rubbish.

[curzon]

Quite agree about the Grimes and the Billy Budd - what was all the fuss about?  But for sheer unbelievable over-ratedness - including an Olivier - the ENO Jenufa takes some beating.

As for the Ring - keep it simple, I'm sure is the watchword.  It's all there in the music.  I saw the first ten minutes of the Spitfire wreck Siegfried on BBC2 just for a good laugh.  If someone had done a spoof of a trendy modern Wagner production, it could not have beaten this pretentious rubbish.

I think "Siegfried" was definitely the worst of the Warner Ring. Some of "Rheingold" and "Walkure" was good but one wonders if that wasn't often down to Pappano and the combination of Terfel, Meier and Domingo etc. I have always had a problem with Siegfried. Tt's difficult to sympathise with a hero who seem so utterly odious. The first time one can relate to him is the scene with Brunnhilde.

Sebastian

[SeeSharp]

Despite the general opinion here that this Siegfried production was not very good, I'm very sorry to have missed it.

I assume this Siegfried broadcast was part of the cycle that the BBC started in 2005? More precisely, this cycle began with Rheingold on Easter Sunday and Walüre the day after. However, the Walküre was cancelled that day by the BBC and re-scheduled to May 11, 2005 (I think).

That Rheingold production on TV was what made me a huge Ring fan. Beautiful production with Terfel. I also liked the abstractness of the set. I was unlucky to miss the Walküre's re-broadcast because it took place at 1 PM (I expected it to begin only in the evening). I have been looking forward to Siegfried and Götterdämmerung from that day. I thought the two final parts would be scheduled for Easter 2006, but they weren't. Now, it turns out that I have missed Siegfried after all. From Götterdammerung, I was able to watch the last 2 hours. Why didn't the BBC give more publicity to their Ring cycle!?

I am very interested in recordings that any of you may have made of the BBC broadcasts of the Ring cycle. Particularly, if someone recorded one of the operas to a DVD or hard-disk, I would be interested in obtaining a copy. I would be willing to compensate that person for their troubles.

Does anyone know whether the BBC or the ROH are planning to release these recordings on DVD? It would be a logical step--I mean why spend time and money on a recording that is only shown once on TV. Or is there going to be a repeat of these broadcasts?

Please PM me or reply to this topic!